Rise Against: “We’re fighting for a world that gets everyone the same access to happiness and success. That’s what we’ll always keep fighting for”

Tim McIlrath has a theory – more like learned experience, really – that no matter who you are and what you’ve done in life, when you return home and sit at the dinner table with your family, you naturally and sometimes unintentionally resume your earliest role of son, daughter, sibling, cousin, child.

“Because that’s the dynamic you grew up in,” he explains. “You’ve gone all over the world and spread your wings, but you come back to that same table and you’re like, ‘I’m still that guy.’”

The Rise Against vocalist/guitarist is comparing this universal position to that of his band going into their 10th album Ricochet. Up until this point, the Chicago punk rock heroes have remained extremely – and admirably – consistent. But, Tim thought, rather than returning to a studio like Fort Collins’ Blasting Room – where they’ve laid down many incredible records over the past 20-plus years – and working with another trusty producer, it was time to find a way to not be those same guys sitting at the dinner table anymore.

“It’s beautiful and comfortable and amazing, in some ways, to have that foundation,” Tim says. “And what we’ve done in The Blasting Room is the reason I’m in this room here today. But after a while it becomes harder and harder to break out.”

So, the quartet – completed by guitarist Zach Blair, bassist Joe Principe and drummer Brandon Barnes – called on Aussie producer Catherine Marks (boygenius, Foals, Manchester Orchestra) for the first time to mix things up in a way they’ve never attempted before.

“I remember Tim was like, ‘If we’re going to do this, let’s think way outside the box, and [work with] somebody that really has no reference to our music and has never really done anything like this,’” continues Zach, as Kerrang! catch up with the pair of Rise Against six-stringers at a fancy London hotel. “We are a band that’s going to sound like our band. If you give us any sort of genre or style of music, we’re going to play it the way we play it. But Catherine wasn’t too precious about what we had done in the past. She might have listened to us a bit, but for her, it was like she was starting on that first day with us. And her references and milestones were endlessly fascinating to me. I was like, ‘What are you going to come up with?’

“No-one works as hard as Catherine Marks,” Zach adds. “We’ve worked with some very hard workers, and oh my god, that woman’s work ethic and all her dedication to the project was unparalleled.”

Now, the fruits of this new labour are here. Released last Friday to a glowing 4/5 Kerrang! review, Tim enthuses that it’s a “relief” to get Ricochet out in the world – not just because “we’ve been sitting on this for a minute”, but Rise Against’s goal to do something different has been emphatically achieved.

Here, Tim and Zach take us further into Ricochet – and how despite some of these new sounds, their message will never change…

This is the most different Rise Against album ever. Is that something Catherine coaxed out of you, or is it what you were aiming for straight off the bat?
Tim: “It was something we wanted to happen in the decisions that we made before we sat down to really do the record. If you’re expecting to make something different, but you’re using the same ingredients, then it’s going to be virtually the same. And so we realised: Rise Against have been a band for 25 years and this is our 10th record, and we’re little bit congealed in our ways. There are only so many things that we are going to change. And one of them was the producer. Bringing in a different set of ears and eyes on our band – especially someone who was largely unfamiliar with us – was kind of the goal. I think when people hear this, they will be able to hear these songs as unique to this era of Rise Against. It won’t just blend with every other Rise Against song. Going with Catherine was sort of admitting to ourselves, ‘This is the Rise Against sound – the four of us. Whatever we do is gonna really sound like Rise Against, no matter how hard we try to make it not.’ And so we were able to do what we do, but just capture it in a bit of a different way that I think people will hear and go, ‘Oh, this sounds different.’ And so I feel very happy about this record, especially when I hear people say that it sounds different – whether they like it or not. That’s cool; that means we did something right.”

Did this being the 10th album put any extra pressure on you, like, ‘Oh my god, we’re into double figures now!’
Tim: “You know, it wasn’t so much pressure, it was almost like permission. It was like, ‘Okay, you made it; you made 10 records and you can do whatever the fuck you want to.’ We’ve always done whatever the fuck we want to do, but there was something about this one was even more so. There are nine other Rise Against records out there – there’s something for everybody. You get to choose which one of your favourite record is, which era is your favourite. And so it’s almost less pressure. It was like, ‘Okay, let’s see what the 10th one is.’ We’ve already ticked a lot of boxes and given people a bit of everything, and so we felt like we had license to try anything. I don’t really pay attention to how many years we’ve been around or what the anniversaries are – I never knew the number of records that we were on. But something about 10 was like, ‘Oh, that’s crazy.’ It was like we were free and clear.”
Zach: “So much of what we do is touring and playing live shows, that if you think about it in that perspective, it’s like, unless you play a three-and-a-half hour show, which you never would, you’re there for at a festival, 45 minutes to an hour, and you’re a headliner for an hour-and-a-half. We’re so fortunate that we have fans that want to hear so much of our body of work that you might only get two or three of the new songs anyway. So we felt like we could make a record that’s a bit of a swing for the fences because we’re not gonna be playing the whole thing.”

Were there moments, Zach, where you were really impressed by what Tim was bringing in?
Zach: “I think the first thing Tim presented was I Want It All – that was the first one we actually worked on. That was when we were kind of trying to see if we worked well with Catherine. It was in the fall of 2023, we got together in Los Angeles, and for me it was a really exciting moment because I’d been waiting – I’ve wanted this. We were having initial talks of, ‘This is the 10th record, this is the time to push.’ I was getting excited, because as an artist, you want to push yourself and reinvent when you create. It’s like what David Bowie did with every record – he was not precious, and he was on his own plane. He didn’t care if the fans liked it. He was going to reinvent himself. I feel like there needs to be a common ground but as an artist, you do want to do that. So Tim brought I Want It All, and I could tell how it was gonna sound because it’s us, but it was really, really exciting. And then hearing Catherine’s perspective on it as well, it was all such a thrilling experience for me. I’ve always been such a fan of everything Tim’s done, of course, and then getting the chance to sort of make it my own… But honestly, the whole experience and showing up every day, it was so great. I’m not saying anything about how we’ve done things in the past – it’s definitely our home and in our family and all that stuff. But you do go, ‘Okay, well, what’s next?’ We really tried to step up and answer that on this one. And it sounds like us – but it sounds like us pushing ourselves. Our friends have actually commented on that – I got a really thoughtful text from a friend last night saying, ‘I can see you guys are pushing yourselves.’ That’s really awesome and gratifying.”

And Tim, can you give Zach a shoutout about any moments that blew you away while working on Ricochet?
Tim: “Zach brings an energy that’s very open to trying shit. It’s like in improv comedy, where the technique is saying, ‘Yes, and…?’ It’s like, ‘I’m going to do a bit, we’re going to do it together, and your only answer is yes – you’re not allowed to reject it or say it’s stupid.’ Zach brings a, ‘Yes, and…?’ energy to the whole thing, which is really helpful. That energy is on every single song.”

You’re probably not short of lyrical inspiration in 2025, but do you remember the first song where the floodgates opened?
Tim: “The song Prizefighter. Something that was inspiring me on this album and as an artist was relationship with a fanbase, and how that’s changed over the last 20 years – especially in the year of social media. Prizefighter was casting off any sort of shackles – it was like, ‘We’re just going to do what we do,’ you know? And if you’re along for this ride then cool, but nobody owns us. Nobody owns this band. Nobody owns our songs. Nobody owns our sound. We just do what we do. And you’re welcome to have a penny on it, but you don’t own us. We don’t belong to you.
“But also, as we watch the increasing rise of the far right and the right wing, they are trying to hijack the word ‘revolution’. Rise Against has been about revolution for the past 25 years, and we’ll be damned if someone tries to take that word from us. Especially a word that represents the opposite of what a far right or right winger is trying to do. Rise Against is always going to fight for a level playing field, and there are people in this world who believe that the world is a level playing field and so they don’t understand the fight for it. They don’t understand why you would try to disrupt a system that is benefitting them. We believe that the world is not a level playing field and you should try to disrupt any of the things that are preventing it from being a level playing field. That’s something that I wanted to sing about on this record. And make this record a bit of a teachable moment in that sense, because I feel like that’s how we got to where we are right now, with a world that has seen a flare-up of far right groups and authoritarianism. We’re trying to empower the voices that have a better vision for the future.”

In terms of the album name, you’ve spoken about everything having a ‘big ricochet effect’ and how we’re all connected – is that in a positive or negative sense, or both?
Tim: “I think it’s a little bit of both. It’s about how connected we all are, and how we’re all in the same room, and if you knew that you were in the same room as the people that you loved and cared about, you would think twice about firing that gun because you don’t know where that bullet’s gonna end up. At the same time, it’s those positive things that you give out in the world – they could affect things in a really positive way that you don’t anticipate. It’s that ricochet, that chain reaction, and it’s about how we’re all connected for better or for worse. We need to think about those connections – especially in an increasingly isolated world that we live in. We delusionally believe that we’re not connected. But my rights as as American in 2025 are directly connected to the rights of an undocumented immigrant that they’re kicking out of the country without due process. If we allow that to happen, there’s a ricochet effect there: by allowing that guy to get kicked out of the country and put in a prison, there’s nothing stopping anybody from doing the same thing to me. Because you don’t give him due process, you don’t want to give me due process. You can just take me out of the country. It sets a precedent that anybody could be removed and have their lives changed. And so that’s the ricochet effect. We have to realise that we’re all connected so we don’t let things slide into chaos.”

You’ve always made it very clear that you’re not trying to just rant at people and you’re asking a lot of questions. Is that still the case this time around, or do you have a few more answers?
Tim: “In 2025, I think we’re trying to take a step back and think about how we got here, and how we get out of here. What we were saying earlier: I believe this world plays in the favour of some people while disadvantaging other people. And so if you are someone like me who believes the world is not a level playing field, then you advocate for ways to disrupt those cycles that keep people down. I think that’s something that we have to kind of teach – or reteach – the planet. And so once you realise that, then you start to find ways to elevate the disadvantaged and acknowledge privilege where it exists, and find the tools and devices that we use to level the playing field. Like, Americans, for example, there’s a portion of our country who doesn’t understand why we would ever emphasise things like diversity or equity or inclusion. The people that don’t understand that are people that are mostly already benefitting from the system. And so if you can explain to them: here’s why you would elevate those voices, because we all want to live in a fair game. That’s the vision of the future that our band advocates for.”

Do you still get as much out of this as you ever did – writing and recording, releasing music, spreading your message?
Tim: “Every year there’s a new thing to get excited about. And you try to push your band and get something different out of your live show. And then as the world changes, you find new ways to be more effective at communicating who you are and what you believe, to the incoming class of freshmen. We want to fight the good fight and be part of the solution, and so we’re trying to show up and do that. And then I also think it’s funny for us because we’re so on the inside, and I even forget about the size of our band, the influence and the fans that we do have. I’m one of the guys that every year thinks it’s probably the end of the road – that no-one’s going to come to the show tomorrow. I can’t believe we’ve gone this long! But maybe that’s a good way to look at it sometimes, and we’ve also got to acknowledge that there are more and more people, and you’ve got to show up for them. You don’t have the right to be jaded; it’s a privilege to do what we do, so take it seriously. And then also find a way to age gracefully into your band – like, walk onto a stage no longer the 23-year-old kid who started this band, but walk onto it as a 46-year-old. And what does that look like for Rise Against? And how do you present that in a way that respects the thing you started? So yeah, there’s always a new challenge to keep you excited. You want to stay good at what you do.”

So much has changed in the world since you first started out, but has the ethos and message of the band changed over time too?
Tim: “I think the core is always the same. I know I keep talking about the level playing field, but that’s what we’ve always been doing: fighting to create a level playing field, whether you are gay, straight, black or white, part of the queer community, the trans community… no matter whether you were born in poverty or what ZIP code you were born in, what country you were born in, what language you speak. We’re fighting for a world that gets everyone the same access to happiness and success. That’s what we’ll always keep fighting for. Hopefully we’ll get there one day, but as it stands now, the world is still not a level playing field and so we still have things to sing about.”

Next year it’ll be 25 years since debut album The Unraveling was released. What advice would you go back and give to 2001-era Tim and Zach?
Zach: “I think for me personally, this is all I ever wanted to do, so I would just be like, ‘You’re still doing it?!’ I think that the younger me would be like, ‘Good!’ Because, you know, he didn’t know. And maybe start [hair loss treatment] Regaine now. Start early and don’t kid yourself, because it’s falling out (laughs).”
Tim: “I’ll say this: I enjoy now the struggle that Rise Against had to go through. I think that made us who we are. We had help on the way – Fat Wreck Chords signed us, and bands took us on tour, and we’ve had an amazing team of managers and agents, and we took advice from a lot of people in that sense. But I’m glad that nobody tried to advise us too much. I’m glad nobody helped us too much. I think too much help would have hurt us, you know? None of us came from connections or money, or access to the industry – we all grew up in the Midwest essentially: Texas, Colorado and Chicago, far from the coasts where things were happening. I didn’t know anybody who worked for the music industry growing up. The idea of being a musician was a far-fetched fucking plan. And I look back at all those things and I’m so glad that we did it ourselves and made it happen. I think it’s one of the reasons that we’re still here, and it makes it more gratifying and rewarding. If you had those connections then it doesn’t mean what you’ve done isn’t as valid, but I think that the struggle is what made us who we are. If I went back into a time machine, I don’t think I’d say anything else other than, ‘Just keep doing what you’re doing. You’re fine. Focus on tonight’s show, and the songs on the next record. Just keep doing it.’”

Down the line, when you look back at this album, what do you think it will say about who you were at the time you made it?
Tim: “Oh wow… I think we’ll look back on a band accepting its veteran status (laughs), accepting who we are, the age we are, and sort of leaning into that a little bit. And not surrendering to it, but almost renewing our lease and signing up for another 10 years! Going, ‘Yes, that is cool. We can do this.’ It is possible to go out there and play songs we wrote 20 years ago or play songs we wrote last year. And still be able to own these stages and not be making fools of ourselves, but actually maybe playing better than we’ve ever played. At least for me, it’s like, ‘Here’s a new era of Rise Against.’”

The future is always very uncertain for bands – so what would it take for Ricochet to feel like a success?
Tim: “To me, it’s already a success. The fact that it exists. I don’t read comments or reviews or anything, but I talk to people and get an impression [that way]. And so the fact that someone’s saying this doesn’t sound exactly like your last record, then boom. Success.”
Zach: “We pushed ourselves. We tried new things. We taught an old dog new tricks!”

Ricochet is out now via Loma Vista

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